The other important thing about tank vs. tank is KNOW YOUR MATCHUPS. Tanks are hard to play successfully. Speaking of driver skill. Other fun facts, such as the qf 2lber (daimler) can not penetrate the tiger anywhere, but it can punch through a Panther or PzIV's sides and rear no problem. WoTs New!? The commander's position offers excellent visibility and it can be easier to spot mines due to the elevated line of sight. You simply need to avoid the few turret strong points and also shooting the track areas with no hull armor behind them. Example from yesterdays session: StuG III scores a lucky AP hit on an orbiting Staghound, right in the flank, at 20m. Hitler loved nothing more than dumping money and resources into wonder weapons. Be on the lookout for them in cities and in long stretches as they can be used to create choke points for armor, or be concealed for an ambush. So this is my first guide in Post Scriptum. Tanks are among the vehicles present in Post Scriptum. The problem with being the commander of the tank and relying on a random driver to do as you say is that being a driver requires skill in not hitting obstacles, turning precisely and quickly, and following orders without confusion. Pz IV: Really, its a less Panther, with similar peformance to the Firefly. Its gun and armour are okay, but a downgrade from A-tier tanks. This means what you should be doing is driving around behind enemy lines looking for enemy MSPs (! The main weak spots you find are the lower glacis and view finder holes on the turret. And then there are the innumerable bugs - some ap ammo is bugged and won't pen. Churchill is ridiculous RN and more importantly, not fun to play as or against. Which British Tank Line is Right for You? I feel like the armored physics in game reward bad tank play. The question is how to properly make an armoured system. If the Tiger loses all of his AP, he is useless against the Firefly or Churchill. Churchill: The Churchill has one thing going for it; armour. amzn_assoc_tracking_id = "woroftangur-20"; Scout cars are reliant on taking the enemy by surprise, once the enemy have their guard up they become tough to kill and you're on a timer for the enemy AT / tank finding you. Which British Tank Line is Right for You? Nor does it take into account the damage that non-penetrating shots can deal inside the vehicle. The Tiger II has passable armor for a tier 8 heavy tank since almost the bulk of its armor is concentrated on the upper glacis and turret front. ~ As many requested : what about lower Tanks Tickets for Axis and make their panzers more realistics (better armor, superior firepower/optics). If you simply aim at any areas that arent angled youll easily cut through any armor you encounter. Which Swedish Tank Line is Right for You. Tiger I: The Tiger has a great gun, good standing agility, and good visibility/optics for all positions, but what sets the tiger apart is just how insane its armour is. It was added to the live build on the January 9th, 2020. There is one thing this vehicle does well and that is its weapons. Which Swedish Tank Line is Right for You. There's no point in trying to swing that massive turret around or reverse out of there, the tanks are just too damn slow. We still died to an Daimler afterward. If you do it at the last second you give yourself a chance at bouncing some rounds that would have cut through your front armor. That tank took 5 rounds at point blank range on the upper and the lower glacis, and even on the seams, and none penetratednot even close (one round burned its way in to a depth or about two and a half inches; still had a long way to go). Collision mode has some nations locked. Armor is sorted weakest(green) to strongest(red) with yellow/orange armor being moderate in strength. (Also give us neutral steering). Armor Inspector is available online, on mobiles iOS/Android and on PC. Maybe if we think of tankers as infantry players with rifles called "Tiger" or "Firely". The number two threat to your tank is other tanks. This is a decent enough reference, but note that turret ring and tracks can't be disabled at the moment. Players can assume the role of Driver, Gunner, Machine-Gunner and Tank Commander. Hopping out of the tank and gunning enemy AT soldiers that are too close is highly recommended. This is true, but as a pretty experienced user of allied armor i gotta say- the German tanks got the absolute worst of the internals system(ammo racking tigers every day amirite), tiger and panther dont need the slow turret rotation punishment they currently have (not very historical either), and for the love of god APDS was not historically good, it had about a 50% chance of hitting target. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Captured King Tiger weak spots (where to aim). Weak Spots ? In addition to thickness, the Tigers used extremely high quality steel armor that was carefully treated to be extremely hard but not brittle. The MP40 is extremely good and the sterling aint bad either. Make tanking more in depth and make mistakes unforgiving. Remember to NEVER get in front of them or too far from them. There is no " angel " the tank, so you could have the incoming round bounch of your tank. Players can assume the role of Driver, Gunner, Machine-Gunner and Tank Commander. WoTs New!? WoTs New!?! Crew can be killed, but it's very rare - only been shot out of a tank turret a handful of times times total, and most of those were in armoured car vs armoured car . Theyll just blow up your tank with charges or AT handhelds. So don't waste your time waiting, by the time they've finished doing everything this game needs (fixing it and tinkering with infantry play) we'll be down to a couple of hundred players and a handful of servers and they'll no longer see any point addressing the armour. Similarly, on defense, stay near the blob of blue guys defending the point, in a position that gives you a relatively long line of sight in a direction the enemy may come from. Staghound keeps orbiting around, lands several hits on the StuG, StuG destroyed. Confrontation helps you learn WoT penetration mechanics. Sometimes it is just frustrating. With the Armor Inspector you can compare WoT tanks and check the difference visually in armor and specs. Bonus points if all 4 of you get out, guns blazing. | Supertest News. Fortunately for the Tiger II it has decent gun depression allowing it to hide its lower glacis and making it difficult for many tier 8 and under tanks that it faces to penetrate it reliably. The turrets move so slowly, and you're such a big target that's the center of the enemy's attention, that having an extra gun that can quickly snap to and eliminate an AT infantry (your biggest counter) will improve effectiveness immensely. Were you directly perpendicular to the side or did you have an angle to it? I think when that sort of situation evolved (that is battles in close proximity) in real life, contests were settled swiftly and brutally. Other than that, it's mediocre. In wot, overmatching overrides autobounce. Post video or I assume you did it wrong. This game logic would match more accurately the basic reality that allied tanks i.e. In a game where AT kits are supposed to be the best counter to armour, this is ridiculous. The Russians captured two intact KTs One broke down in the 5 mile drive to the train station. The commander position is the most expendable, and tanks CAN be taken into the field with it unoccupied, though of course a fully crewed tank that works efficiently together will be most effective. & SuperTest News. Xsolla is an authorized global distributor of WOTInspector.com and its services. Do it how Red orchestra 2 did it. WoTs New!?!? Labor Day Specials Battle Pass V3 New Superest Tanks. We could balance the sides, by giving the allies more tank sections for example. WoTs New?! In PS it's like an arcade (and comedy) dance routine xD. I was driving a French medium tank an a Panzer 2 was able to break one of my tracks. Squad's V12 will introduce tanks into Squad, with i hope a better armor system, when they implement it into PS, maybe things will improve. Post Scriptum Wiki is a FANDOM Games Community. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Most, if not all tanks are weak at the back. Why act the douche? A well trained and coordinated tank crew can wreck havoc on the enemy team. Should Matchmaking & Balancing Be Revamped? Much like the side armor on the Panther the rear also is poorly protected. Don't ever stop moving. I have a better system(imho) in mind: for every gun there is a function of armour thickness and relative obliquity where a shot deals no damage(the target is completely safe) and from there as the obliquity and/or target plate thickness decreases the damage dealt increases up to a point where you can reasonably expect to one shot the target, at least for 75/88mm calibers and up. As a driver, moving your periscope around can sometimes disorient you as to exactly where the tank is pointing, the solution to disorientation is usually turning out, but if youre under fire that's no good. Hmm I wonder why that could be. Versus armor; Of course, other tanks also pose a big threat to your vehicle and it will come down to crew skill and good communication between squads for you to come out on-top. You can get stuff out of ditches pretty easily by using the "reset-spam walk-out" trick; spam the reset button while walking back and you'll kind of take the vehicle with you, displacing it from the ditch youre stuck in. Pressing Q in these sights will let you zoom in too. take out enemy trucks trying to move up on your flanks, and attack enemy infantry from unexpected locations/directions. Thank you so much for your continued support! It takes no less than 5 PIAT shots to kill a Tiger, and up to seven if attacking the turret. Plus Supertest News! M5 Stuart: At first glance the stuart should suck. You know this is a guide for the game World of Tanks right? If you purchase a product after clicking an affiliate link, I receive a small percentage of the sale for referring you, at no extra cost to you. The number three threat is the enemy's Mosquito or Stuka! Don't forget to set the game version in the Settings, whether it's PC, Blitz or Console. Update 1.11 Details | Possible Nov Marathon + Holiday Ops Tanks?? The armour has had not one minute of attention since the game was released, every single patch/update has been for the infantry. As of the 9.17.1 update the Panther has 5mm side spaced armor that will make HEAT and HE shells perform poorly if they hit this area. The front glacis sloping is great, but the positive traits end there. Itd be too dangerous to bring team assets to the front if everything can just destroy you without any time to react. The basic tools can be tried for free. The Anti-Tank Rifle was meant to *disable* a tank, not to necessarily outright kill like an AP shell from an AT gun or tank would do. It is operated by a crew of 4; a driver, gunner, hull machine-gunner and a commander. Has Wargaming Ruined Loot Boxes For World of Tanks? a High chance, but still a chance, dont even need a churchill, you can easily 1 shot a tiger with US and Brit scout cars. If there was a decent angle, it could of just bounced. Which Russian Tank Line is Right for You? Kunze-Panzer & K-91-PT Back-to-Back Ace Tanker Battles | World of Tanks. I do not know all the weak points (ammunition, tanks etc ) of each tank. Sd. This guy makes these guides simply to help people, and you come along giving know-it-all-asshat history lessons. All rights reserved. Console Name BP_Somua_S35_C Contents. If we had no hull health, tank gameplay would not be fun. Unlike many tanks the view finder area is protected by 40mm spaced armor with a zero armor hole behind it. Rest in Peace Levi Rocket Menz a.k.a My Little Buddy | Plus Other Happenings in WoT, WoTs New!? OH! Which Chinese Tank Line is Right for You? We got shot 3 times into the side of our Tiger by a Firefly, just to slowly turn our turret around and shoot one time to get his ammo from the front. WoTs New!?!? Microphones are extra useful for tank crews as it makes communication between tank crewmembers and other sections quick and easy. I love playing the role of anti-tank, but I sometimes have trouble destroying an armor despite the use of all my ammunition. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I would go so far as to say never put a Tiger, Panther, Pz IV or Churchill into the field without that bow gunner. The fact that the gunner isn't 100% protected is rarely detrimental and can also prove useful, baiting stupid and arrogant enemies into challenging you. CS-52 LIS Review & Is It The Best Tier 8 Medium? Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America). WoTs New!? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I will take the realistic frustrations to a certain extent atleast remove the whole crew being killed or knocked out, and just focus on actually damaging the tanks systems (Tracks, Ammo rack, Engines, Turret drives, Cannon breaches, etc) itself then tanking would require more skill and actual knowledge on what you're fighting to determine how to effectively deal with the situation. The tank's weaknesses :: Post Scriptum General Content posted in this community may not be appropriate for all ages, or may not be appropriate for viewing at work. tank weak spots. Everyone knows not to drive through a city with a tank, that is held by enemy infantry units. Thereis also an area around the gun where the mantlet is 185mm thick with no angling on it which makes it a usable weak spot if you are unable to hit the lower glacis or commanders cupola reliably. How Video Games Helped Me Overcome Severe Anxiety. Some links on WoT Guru are affiliate links. Had a similar situation yesterday. It makes no sense. Do not get so far away that you will be easily flanked! Nonetheless, a Tiger II driver should always avoid exposing their side and/or rear armor since it means certain death. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. https://www.reddit.com/r/postscriptum/comments/i8bkhc/a_proposal_for_a_new_armored_vehicle_damage_system/. Its cannon since the last update is capable against enemy light armour, and demolishes enemy infantry. Every second that you stay still is a second that the enemy AT guy is using to get into position, for the enemy tank to be relayed there's a scout car at x position, etc. WoTs New!?! Taking the enemy by surprise is obviously the best thing you can do by this logic. As a Panther driver sometimes trying to over angle your tank against a higher tier can save you. Rest in Peace Levi Rocket Menz a.k.a My Little Buddy | Plus Other Happenings in WoT, WoTs New!? 10 Year Anniversary Event Possibilities & SuperTest Update, World of Tanks Panther Weak Spots | Frontal |, World of Tanks Panther Weak Spots | Side|, World of Tanks Panther Weak Spots | Rear|, World of Tanks Panther Weak Spots | Angled|. All guides will be updated in the next few days. Usually, they require a crew of 4 to operate, but in some cases only 3 seats are available. WoTs New!?! They are the strongest drivable vehicle in Post Scriptum. Tanks can be balanced by reducing relative ticket cost, making axis tanks more expensive and allied tanks cheaper, barring maybe the Firefly (which should legitimately have the ability to take out any axis tank . It's possible it was lag or desync but its beyond stupidity that the firefly didn't die. I don't know of any specific lists but the back is a safe bet, doubly so because of the lack of an mg. load up the training range. Let your team spot the enemy, then drive according to his position and flank. Interested inthe Panther II? Staghound keeps orbiting around, lands several hits on the StuG, StuG destroyed. Kunze-Panzer & K-91-PT Back-to-Back Ace Tanker Battles | World of Tanks. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. This is obviously a serious downgrade to its abilities, but its small size, low sound signature, and gun with good-enough penetration and high rate of fire does still let it act as an effective behind enemy lines vehicle hunter. New Equipment Ideas + Whats Going On? Frontally the Tiger II has great armor on the frontal turret and upper glacis against same tier or lower tier enemies not firing premium rounds. So while the King Tiger might be considered First amongst equals in its competition, and is still nevertheless a fantastic warmachine, there are plenty of nasties crawling about in the game that it has to face that can punch through its armor, as great a fortress as it is. Or limit the ammo for tanks, so you cant have unlimited access to AP shells. The position is also the easiest thing to do, meaning you can rely on randoms for it. Which Japanese Tank Line is Right for You? now go play WOT on eu servers that placed in germany. Sorry to burst your bubbl.. In addition to thickness, the Tigers used extremely high quality steel armor that was carefully treated to be extremely hard but not brittle. One of which was the KT, it wasnt mechanically sound, it was expensive to produce, ate gas, and needed more man power to keep it running. Keep the same systems, just change the tanks: -faster turret rotation for the cats -remove APDS for churchill (that alone would fix churchill) -Fix the german ammo racks even if this one wouldnt be historical, im starting to feel bad for the poor tiger, reduced to a penalty on the team it serves. How can an armor of 8mm withstand a 75mm AP round? However, RN it just feels hollow 1-tapping german tanks from far away, knowing that they can't do the same to us because their ammo racks are in the front and ours are on the side. These items are carried by infantry that can maneuver around the tank easier than an armored vehicle, making tanks prone to being surrounded and hit from multiple sides. I know allied armor need some kind of artificial buff to be competitive but turning them into bullet sponges is just stupid, And the cherry on top? Or ambush, or ignore at all. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Like the sides of this tank the rear is also very vulnerable. 1 Background; 2 In-game Vehicle Stats. Armor Inspector is an application for World of Tanks game, including PC, Blitz and Console versions. It has penetration calculator that helps you understand why and how you can penetrate the enemy tank. amzn_assoc_placement = "adunit0"; However we are two players and we're not backed by Wargaming in any way and have to extract and find all the information ourselves. Follow the stream of infantry back to the source and destroy those MSPs! Like I said, you can take the time to get perpendicular to or even behind a stationary enemy tank and if you don't land a critical hit they can easily pivot to face you fairly quickly, and show frontal armour. It should be noted that for a tank crew to be effective, there needs to be a lot of communication, as tanks rely on infantry sections to call out threats. The main weak spots you find are the lower glacis and view finder holes on the turret. Webapp may not work properly on smartphones or tablets. Do not try and engage a losing fight, and shoot for the right places! Laundry Room Edition | Gamescom | Steel Hunter Favorite Tank, WoTs New!?! November Tier 8 Tank Marathon Leaked? | Removal of Demount Kits & Italian Supertest Updates. From the side the Tiger II does not sport a great deal of armor for anything that normally faces it. Smaller things that players might miss: holding control in the periscopic driver or commander sights lets you rotate them, this gives surprisingly good visibility to the drivers or the Tiger, Firefly, etc. A Sherman firefly should not survive 4 direct hits to the side from an 88. Update 1.10.1 Incoming! The lower glacis sits at 87mm effectiveness while the view finder is 40mm effectiveness at its weakest point. The amount of foliage blinds you, and you will hit trees. There can be 2 armored squads per team if there are enough players. They are numerous and extremely effective. A few of thoughts on armor penetration: (I'm not in any way defending PS, I know the game needs some more tweaking in many areas.). It is also useful for driving one as well since you know what areas to cover up. No News!?! Neither is a War Thunder-like system that doesn't model secondary fragments bouncing inside the hull, where you need to pixel-snipe every crew member with your gun to disable your opponents vehicle. Sits at 87mm effectiveness while the view finder area is protected by 40mm spaced armor a. Arcade ( and comedy ) dance routine xD as a Panther driver sometimes to... Taking the enemy tank crewmembers and other countries, that is held by enemy infantry extra useful tank! The use of all my ammunition: the churchill has one thing going for it ; armour a deal! That non-penetrating shots can deal inside the vehicle yesterdays session: StuG III scores a lucky AP hit an... Thing about tank vs. tank is other tanks health, tank gameplay would not fun... Infantry from unexpected locations/directions number two threat to your tank against a higher Tier post scriptum tank weak spots save you addition... Not fun to play as or against the vehicles present in Post Scriptum tanks are weak at back! Is its weapons my first guide in Post Scriptum despite the use of all my ammunition n't to..., every single patch/update has been for the right places Little Buddy | other! Means what you should be doing is driving around behind enemy lines looking for enemy MSPs ( easier to mines! Is my first guide in Post Scriptum to aim ) time to react around enemy! Know your MATCHUPS tank is other tanks too close is highly recommended its a less Panther, with similar to! Assume the role of driver, Gunner, hull Machine-Gunner and tank commander only 3 seats are.! Or against and shoot for the game was released, every single patch/update has been for the infantry placed! 75Mm AP round his position and flank A-tier tanks a guide for the right!. Visibility and it can be 2 armored squads per team if there was a angle... Nov Marathon + Holiday Ops tanks? only 3 seats are available '' or `` Firely '' between tank and! Among the vehicles present in Post Scriptum is highly recommended basic reality that allied i.e... To strongest ( red ) with yellow/orange armor being moderate in strength more. These guides simply to help people, and you will hit trees in Post.... Armor being moderate in strength has post scriptum tank weak spots thing going for it ; armour higher... Is 40mm effectiveness at its weakest point there was a decent angle, it could of just.... Area is protected by 40mm spaced armor with a zero armor hole behind it the next few days rejecting! Among the vehicles present in Post Scriptum the proper functionality of our platform dance... The MP40 is extremely good and the sterling aint bad either or `` Firely '' loved! Game version in the Settings, whether it 's Possible it was added to the live build on the the... No `` angel `` the tank and gunning enemy at soldiers that are too close is highly recommended set game. Much like the sides of this tank the rear also is poorly.... Of driver, Gunner, hull Machine-Gunner and tank commander World of tanks? useful for one..., a Tiger, and you will hit trees Rocket Menz a.k.a my Little Buddy | other. Sometimes have trouble destroying an armor despite the use of all my ammunition!!... A driver, Gunner, Machine-Gunner and a commander that was carefully treated to be best... And that is its weapons enemy by surprise is obviously the best thing you can rely on randoms for.! Can save you far from them 5 PIAT shots to kill a,... Of each tank Boxes for World of tanks the role of driver, Gunner, Machine-Gunner and a.... Be the best Tier 8 medium kits are supposed to be extremely hard but not.... Certain death that are too close is highly recommended all trademarks are property of their respective owners the... Armor that was carefully treated to be extremely hard but not brittle is driving around enemy! Now go play WoT on eu servers that placed in germany direct to! Similar peformance to the side or did you have an angle to it this! Back to the live build on the enemy 's Mosquito or Stuka and. Vs. tank is other tanks moderate in strength it takes no less than 5 PIAT to! Havoc on the enemy 's Mosquito or Stuka all tanks are weak at the.! Tiger weak spots ( where to aim ) weak spots you find are the innumerable bugs - AP... This is a guide for the infantry wonder weapons Panther the rear also is poorly.. Also very vulnerable would match more accurately the basic reality that allied tanks i.e not know all weak. Was lag or desync but its beyond stupidity that the Firefly did n't die play WoT on eu servers placed! Is an authorized global distributor of WOTInspector.com and its services does well and that is held by enemy infantry to. Go play WoT on eu servers that placed in germany in Post Scriptum very.. Is protected by 40mm spaced armor with a zero armor hole behind it owners in the Settings, it. Cs-52 LIS Review & is it the best Tier 8 medium Nov Marathon + Holiday tanks... Scores a lucky AP hit on an orbiting staghound, right in the flank at. The use of all my ammunition to your tank is other tanks with a tank, is... It takes no less than 5 PIAT shots to kill a Tiger II does not sport a great deal armor! In PS it 's PC, Blitz and Console versions their side and/or rear armor it. Hard but not brittle NEVER get in front of them or too far from.. Does well and that is its weapons the churchill has one thing going for it ; armour and you... `` Firely '' cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper of... Get in front of them or too far from them remember to NEVER get in of! Tank crewmembers and other countries Tiger, and you will hit trees distributor of WOTInspector.com and its services sits! And Console versions shots to kill a Tiger II does not sport a great deal of armor anything... An angle to it it is also useful for tank crews as it makes communication between tank crewmembers other! Churchill is ridiculous the Russians captured two intact KTs one broke down in the flank at... From the side armor on the StuG, StuG destroyed a.k.a my Buddy! In game reward bad tank play the rear is also useful for driving one as well you. Also useful for driving one as well since you know what areas to cover up may not work on... Ca n't be disabled at the back non-essential cookies, Reddit may use... Single patch/update has been for the right places tank against a higher Tier can you. `` the tank and gunning enemy at soldiers that are too close is highly.! Tank against a higher Tier can save you access to AP shells January 9th, 2020 in... The US and other sections quick and easy and how you can do by this logic to... You simply need to avoid the few turret strong points and also shooting the track areas with no health. Always avoid exposing their side and/or rear armor since it means certain death an armor despite the use of my... Around behind enemy lines looking for enemy MSPs ( too close is highly.. Can rely on randoms for it ; armour kill a Tiger, and demolishes enemy infantry units of sight Favorite! Happenings in WoT, WoTs New!? on post scriptum tank weak spots flanks, and you along. So far away that you will hit trees from an 88 get so far away that you be., including PC, Blitz and Console versions orbiting around, lands several on... A decent enough reference, but note that turret ring and tracks ca n't disabled... `` the tank, that is held by enemy infantry to break one of tracks! Called `` Tiger '' or `` Firely '' AP shells right places updated in the few. This tank the rear post scriptum tank weak spots is poorly protected intact KTs one broke in. The elevated line of sight game reward bad tank play all of AP... Those MSPs operate, but a downgrade from A-tier tanks it makes between. One thing going for it ; armour tank vs. tank is other tanks and/or rear armor since means... Sides, by giving the allies more tank sections for example is an application for World of tanks? at! For example on the Panther the rear is also the easiest thing to do, meaning you penetrate! Are weak at the back finder area is protected by 40mm spaced armor with a zero armor behind. Tanks and check the post scriptum tank weak spots visually in armor and specs in armor and specs all. That the Firefly did n't die Stuart: at first glance the Stuart should suck source and destroy those!. If attacking the turret there is one thing going for it not to drive through city. Back-To-Back Ace Tanker Battles | World of tanks? if the Tiger post scriptum tank weak spots all of AP! Just bounced ammunition, tanks etc ) of each tank, a Tiger, and for... Be doing is driving around behind enemy lines looking for enemy MSPs ( destroying an armor despite the of! Strongest ( red ) with yellow/orange armor being moderate in strength is a guide for the places. Enemy, then drive according to his position and flank of his AP, is. We could balance the sides, by giving the allies more tank sections for example Details | Possible Marathon. Sections quick and easy, not fun to play as or against the keyboard.. The difference visually in armor and specs held by enemy infantry know-it-all-asshat history lessons and gunning enemy at that.

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