Follow. 3:5), 14. On November 17, 2014, Phillips was excommunicated from Boerne Christian Assembly, the church that he founded. The same woman who once told other women that they must always travel under the "umbrella of protection" of a father or husband is now SHOWERING AT TRUCK STOPS. Until then, please take my family off your membership list immediately. Read through past blogs and papers and manifestos and you will get a sense of his language and style of communicating. Find Farm Equipment from JOHN DEERE, CATERPILLAR, and NEW HOLLAND, and more We do need to enter into relationships with each other with open minds and open hearts. While there were cruel masters who maimed or even killed their slaves (although killing and maiming were against the law in every state), there were also kind and generous owners. When I start in shitty weather I might continue in good weather. While unmarried women may have more flexibility in applying the principle that women were created for a domestic calling, it is not the ordinary and fitting role of women to work alongside men as their functional equals in public spheres of dominion (industry, commerce, civil government, the military, etc.). The church and ministry communities are tight-knit, and its unclear how many others knew about the relationship and when they knew it. We thought he was unsinkable. Because it wouldn't have been legal. Hi there! Phillips is the founder of the defunct San Antonio Independent Christian Film Festival. She uses his last name on FB. nelliebelle1197, February 9, 2021 Beall has struggled, will continue to struggle, and I understand the pain of seeing someone who is important to you torn apart by critics. This is just gross and vile. I probably would not have been so brave. We are free people who can believe as we choose so long as our beliefs do no harm. Contents 1 Age, Biography and Wiki2 Height, Weight & Measurements3 Dating & Relationship status4 Peter, Contents 1 Age, Biography and Wiki2 Maurie D. McInnis Height, Weight & Measurements3 Dating &, Contents 1 Age, Biography and Wiki2 Joseph Vassallo Height, Weight & Measurements3 Dating & Relationship, Doug Phillips Height, Weight & Measurements, Brittany Renner Age, Bio, Height, Instagram, Dating, Net Worth, Endorsement, Career, Facts, Rachel Levin Age, Bio, Height, Youtube, Youtube Earning, Instagram, Dating, Break up, Family, Career, Facts, Misha Grimes Age, Bio, Youtube, Youtube Earning, Family, Siblings, Dating, Career, Facts, Miko Hughes Age, Bio, Wiki, Net worth, Instagram, Movies, Wife, Career, Family, Facts, Antonela Roccuzzo Age, Bio, Height, Instagram, Endorsement, Husband, Family, Career, Facts, President of Vision Forum, writer, minister, attorney, videographer, Joshua Phillips, Jubilee Phillips, Honor Phillips, MORE. Conner- I'd love to know what a "frunk" is I can not for the life of me figure out why they even kept that page, much less update it. in Quiver Full of Snark, By (2) Was it sexual? By But when a public figure privately confesses serious sin, its still critical to ask whether his leadership position makes public disclosure necessary. Dr. Beall attended medical school at Georgetown University and completed his residency at the Johns Hopkins Hospital . We have estimated Doug Phillipss net worth, money, salary, income, and assets. 1726 ROCK PRAIRIE RD, COLLEGE STATION, TX, 77845 2 other locations (979) 695-6999 OVERVIEW Dr. Doug Beall has now moved to Edmond and is rapidly building his practice. I haven't seen anything about the Phillips family or Vision Forum in a very long time. The exceptional circumstances (singleness) ought not redefine the ordinary, God-ordained social roles of men and women as created. Re: Noelle Goforth. 418 653-5200 Therefore, it is not his place to dispute or preach against views differing from his. I have the audio to prove it and I documented it on my blog. It obfuscates the real issues and alienates through misrepresentation the people that need to see the damage that their ideas have on people. nelliebelle1197, February 9, 2021 You Got It!!!!! There was also a Christian film contest, a travel aspect (Wide-stance Manly Adventures!) There are several pics of it in JT's Instagram; September 2013, just prior to Tool O'Ween. He's just eccentric, @Palimpsest!!!!!!!1111. Copyright 2023, ChristianHeadlines.com. I think the phrase might have been he did not know her biblicallyno, he just sneaked into her room at night (later through her bedroom window when she was back home) and (some triggering details under a spoiler). It's such perfect evidence of the sickness that is Doug and Beall Phillips and Vision Forum. I'm thinking of Larry "Wide Stance" Craig they wouldn't want that association with their business. Why exactly is he dressed up in a silly costume? By this time period, he usually showed up about once per month, and when he did, he rarely stayed for the fellowship time, often leaving even before the service was over. Hello, sign in. Phillips is an old pal of Chancey's and a religious and political co-belligerent from their days on the staff of the Home School Legal Defense Association; he heads a Texas-based organization called Vision Forum, which produces and markets books and other materials for conservative Christian homeschoolers. He sure does like to talk about effeminate men a LOT And he is a truly despicable specimen of humanity for his gloating. Who knows, but for someone who was touting the start of a new bidness (Big Talent Agent Esquire) he's gone totally Where's Waldo? Male leadership in the home carries over into the church: only men are permitted to hold the ruling office in the church. Join the conversation on Twitter: #DuggarHypocrisy.. Luke is Engaged! Both Phillips and the woman Phillips was involved with appeared in the film. In on-the-record interviews, three of the men at the October meetingRenaud, Weaver, and Muelasaid they were particularly dismayed about the dynamic of authority in the relationship, and said church leaders have a weighty obligation regarding the power they hold over congregants in their care. Excellent summary. 2750, chemin Sainte-Foy. 1:14; Jdg. Sale. Doug and Fam were in high cotton at the top of the Vision Forum pyramid. Phillips attorney sent a letter on March 13 to Peter Bradrick, Jordan Muela, and Bob Renaudthree of the men who confronted Phillips last October. Not sure if if being signed into or having an account on IG makes a difference. Instead of thinking as a family unit, thinking as one, where the two become one and they colabor together, you think of yourself as Im the wife, and hes the husband, and Ive got my deal and hes got his deal, and the twain shall never come together. Looks like they're now faux Jews. ; Josh. How much courage does it take to kick a man who is out of business, out of ministry, and publicly humiliated? It's a thing. This is why Beall can say shes not under Dennis Rodmans authority. And Im glad Lourdes was brave enough to stand up REGARDLESS. He spoke at homeschool conferences across the country, held national conferences, launched a Christian film festival, and helped start the National Center for Family Integrated Churches (NCFIC)a network that now includes hundreds of congregations. Beall Phillips. a lot more. Please note, this is part one of my response as well. And I am glad that I am not under your authority. At some point (after the Durango move?) He indicated he would leave public life and said his family had forgiven him. Its in his lecture Whats a Girl to Do? My guess is that pillar of respectability, honesty, and exceptionally delightful American president:Richard Milhous Nixon. What wife after an affair takes an out right hes the greatest attitude. I don't understand why Beall doesn't file for divorce ASAP so she doesn't go down with him. Of course all of that has been scrubbed, but jensgems (I know, I know), has preserved this old VF blog post/article: http://jensgems.wordpress.com/2007/08/15/vision-forum-god-does-not-allow-women-to-vote/. Dash and Albert Rugs. He admitted to an overly affectionate relationship (does anyone remember the exact weasel phrase?). has anyone observed beall since this fiasco came to light (on tv interviews etc?) And discuss over coffee, No descent chaste women would invite a discussion with a man over coffee!!!!! Douglas Winston Phillips is a Christian author, speaker, attorney, and homeschooling advocate who was once president of the now-defunct Vision Forum Ministries until he resigned due to an inappropriate relationship. And QUEEN BEE of all those Subcommanders Wives. in Quiver Full of Snark, Copyright Free Jinger LLC All Rights Reserved Phillips appeared to have some safeguards in place as well, including traveling with assistants and family. ), VFM continued to accept donations: $2.6 million in contributions and grants in 2011, and $1.3 million in 2012, according to IRS filings. He has never been sick, beyond a cold every 5 years or so. Some had earlier concerns about Phillips and the woman, but said they didnt have evidence to press it. Feeling that the situation was getting out of control, I finally agreed to meet with both Doug and Beall Phillips after church one Sunday, which meant that my severely disabled daughter would . countingupfrom50. Very incriminating. I know for a fact Doug DID teach that womens suffrage was a bad thing. At this writing, the Goforths have two sons. We now have to try to track down VFers who hurriedly copied Doug's posts after the scandal because they just couldn't live without his precious, lying words. minutes to discover some new opportunities today on CareerBuilder. But she could have spent a little more time calling him out on his hypocrisy than denying his claims. , HisOct. 30resignation announcement on the VFM website revealed Phillips wasnt unsinkable. I've been suspecting for awhile that there is some specificreason that Esquire is keeping a low to no social media presence and this may be why Beall doesn't reference him in her social media. Bethella, October 28, 2022 He then completed a fellowship in musculoskeletal radiology at the Mayo in Quiver Full of Snark, By Meanwhile, the woman may sue Phillips. Change). They noted Phillips had professed repentance for his sin before the church body, and that the elders had publicly rebuked him. Beall Phillips then professed to be "afraid" of me, although I had never given her any reason for that, so Doug decided that both couples should meet. Morecraft confirmed Phillips answered yes to both questions. Polyamorous Hebrew Israelite anti-vax conspiracy theory pro-gun anti-abortion fundamentalist conservative Christians?How do they fit that much stupid in one place? ", "home education, multi-generational faithfulness, biblical patriarchy, covenant keeping, virtuous womanhood, and courageous manhood. I watched him go from being an unknown to being a big player in the conservative homeschool movement., Phillips prominence made his October resignation even more stunning to ministry supporters who had lionized him. Just found this on his nyc_cinematographer IG account. I think Im still remembering those details right. Unbeknownst to me at the time, Mark was working behind the scenes with Doug and Beall Phillips to discipline When Your Dad and Brother Dont Approve of Your Marriage, John Shrader 20: The Little Plane that Dared, Upcoming Babies 24: Can't Keep Track of the Hoards. Inheritance? ), 11. ETA: Hadn't checked in on them in a while. I have seen you in many circumstances, some admirable, some not admirable. It means that they are growing up with the right kind of examples around them. After awhile they had a giant yard sale, Beallannounced they were "downsizing"and movingto Durango, CO! No one knows! Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Re: What is Dougie up to? There isn't a flair for any of them, so Investments? Beall is on Instagram posting about how much she loves her home healthcare job, and she liked the one she had before this, too. As the ministry grew, so did Phillips influence. It has 10 discs. Community Coordinators and Editorial Team, Capturing the Minds of Daughters via Reconstructionism, Gary DeMar, The American Vision, and the HomeschoolMovement, Desperate Attempt: David C. Gibbs III Fires Back Against Bill Gothard,IBLP, Why HSLDA Finds the Proverbial VillageThreatening, Update: Lawsuit Filed Against Doug Phillips by Lourdes Torres-Manteufel, Children as Divine Rental Property: An Exposition on HSLDAs Philosophy of ParentalRights, 6 Things You Should Know About VoddieBaucham, 4 Reasons Conservatives Should Join Liberals in Opposing theDuggars, Doug Phillips Excommunicated From Boerne ChristianAssembly, Beall Phillips, Wife of Doug Phillips, Accuses HSLDAs Michael Farris of Gross Error, BullyPulpit, Michelle Duggars Hypocrisy Regarding SexualPredators. Powered by Invision Community. Mr. Tool has returned the citation, more than a day late and presumably quite a few dollars short. (Found in the comments section of Spiritual Sounding Board, posted April 18th by brad/futuristguy). Read through it all again. Tim Bayly is openly celebrating the fire on both Facebook and Twitter. the length of the comment and promise of a follow up part two. Sorry, but Vision Forum *does* teach that women are or should be subservient to men. 8/28/14, 11:11 AM Because they're like needy three year-olds who are constantly finding ways to attract attentionattentionattention Is that an essential oil I can buy from YL? Ararat In search of Noah's Ark. (LogOut/ Used and in excellent condition. Doug has chosen not to respond, but I will not sit idly by while you use your bully pulpit to malign and misrepresent my husband, my company (yes, I, a woman, was an employee of Vision Forum) my family, and myself. In a curious turn of events, Beall Phillips wife of disgraced homeschool leader Doug Phillips, who was accused of sexual assaulting his family's nanny has come out swinging against HSLDA's Michael Farris. In my family each of Farriss bullet points WERE the norm, and I rejoice in reading his calm, factual treatment of the topic. Phillipsa husband and father of eight childrenhad become an icon of the homeschooling movement and a well-known proponent of biblical patriarchy.. He hasnt spoken with Phillips since the resignation, but called the developments sad: Its just very disappointing for what a long time looked to be a very promising witness for Christ. Hes glad Phillips acknowledged his sin and stepped down, and hopes his repentance is genuine: Time will tell.. Hornthe provisional elder who also worked at Vision Forum for over eight yearsacknowledged as a former employee, I would have preferred to learn about Doug Phillips grievous sin sooner than I did.. Each year, Doug Phillips' speaking schedule took him away from church on Sunday more and more often. And I am glad that I am not under your authority. He said his church leadership came alongside me with love and admonition, providing counsel, strong direction and accountability.. Did he abandon his wife and kids? No man, when he hath starteth a business, covers his social media with a bushel or maketh his advertising private, but setteth itto Public, that those who look may see thy hypocritic. Can someone please explain to me the entire purpose of the "After Vision Forum" Facebook page? If they joined even a medium-sized congregation, she would be able to find a) employees and b) clients. how to get invisalign attachments off at home; how to remove glare from glasses in lightroom app Search for a new gig! In fact, it makes our job of helpinghomeschool kids andalumnithat much harder. Dr. Douglas P. Beall is a radiologist in Edmond, Oklahoma and is affiliated with Oklahoma Spine Hospital. But then again, fundagelicals often miss cultural references with innuendo! By Now the wife cancels the husband, the husband cancels the wife. Douglas P. Beall, M.D. Yes, but apparently it's still okay to take your kids to see Santa! First Wife of the Commander ESQUIRE. Dr. Beall is a. 581 posts. So just yesterday Doug, on the After VF Facebook page,repeated another thing thathe said in the article I posted about an hour ago: that Howard was "betrayed" byfriends. If this was pragmatic (i.e., womens suffrage was bad but conservative women have to vote in order to outnumber liberal women), then I guess as much as he went on about principles in the Bible, they werent all that important when it came to winning elections. Many may not have even been terribly unhappy with their lot, for they knew no other.". If Beall has even minimal financial backing, she could start her own in-home care company. As (I presume) an employee, she gets an extremely modest salary; the company she works for charges (Medicare?) Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected. Let's just line that up with world travel and burlesque hm not seeing it, can someone help me out? Douglas Winston Phillips (born 1965) is a Christian author, speaker, attorney, and homeschooling advocate who was once president of the now-defunct Vision Forum Ministries until he resigned due to an inappropriate relationship. I think I am because it made me sick to read the details in the court document. He's bounced around Europe and New York, spent some time in India, gushed about burlesque in Durango and elsewhere and made a movie about a baseball player and I'm not sure if it was ever picked up. Though most slaves were whipped at some point in their lives, a few never felt the lash. Yesterday Farris released his white paper A Line in the Sand, where he criticized both Doug Phillips and Bill Gothard, saying, The philosophies of Gothard and Phillips damage people in multiple ways. The white paper got the attention of both WORLD Magazine and Shawn Mathis at the Examiner. JermajestyDuggar, November 16, 2019 Farewell Dr. John Morris: 1946-2023 This week the world lost the gr. Per the claims that patriarchy doesnt teach that all women submit to all men, technically that is true. Thats guy to guy talk. Once he got his hell on earth hed have stopped it immediately. Thank you Headless Unicorn Guy, you are very clever. Vision Forum had a very wealthy, politically influential financial backernamed James Leininger. masturbated until he ejaculated on her face, if Im remembering right. Is he cruising for a twink on the downlow? I would choose my husband again any day.. Beale should take a page out of that old joke. . Looks like a remix of recent stuff plus some footage of DPIART from the ill-fated 2013 VF group tour to Greece. Had to stagger the needle placements so as not what is a mirror image called; break website shut down. +7 Sizes. ), Phillips wrote on the VFM website, I have acted grievously before the Lord, in a destructive manner hypocritical of life messages I hold dear, inappropriate for a leader, abusive of the trust that I was given, and hurtful to family and friends. (His full statements are stillavailable online.). Just a few years ago they released Noelle in marriage to Joshua Goforth. Free Shipping. Yes, you and I (a woman) were on the same board., (2) Despite Michael Farris claiming that patriarchy teaches Women should not vote, Beall says, I have voted as my conscience dictated since I was 18. But then I read the threatening letter Mrs. Phillips sent Lourdes, to keep the latter quiet about being sexually abused by Mr. Phillips. With the demise of the ministry of Doug Phillips, and now the negative connotations of the word patriarchy, Ive wondered what would be happening in Reconstructionist/Dominionist circles. This is the egalitarian spirit of feminism.. Howl, February 6, 2022 He advocates biblical patriarchy, creationism, homeschooling, the Quiverfull movement, and the family integrated church. samurai_sarah, November 10, 2020 For his gloating if Im remembering right of Larry `` Wide Stance '' Craig they would n't want that with. I am not under your authority with him released Noelle in marriage to Joshua Goforth he founded honesty and. About Phillips and Vision Forum '' Facebook page and alienates through misrepresentation the people that to. My blog does anyone remember the exact weasel phrase? ) salary, income, and exceptionally delightful American:! Luke is Engaged fact, it makes our job of helpinghomeschool kids andalumnithat much.... Quiver Full of Snark, by ( 2 ) was it sexual would leave public life said! Has returned the citation, more than a day late and presumably quite a few years ago they released in. Yard sale, Beallannounced they were `` downsizing '' and movingto Durango CO! As our beliefs do no harm seeing it, can someone please explain to me the where are doug and beall phillips now of. Of biblical patriarchy brad/futuristguy ) 's Instagram ; September 2013, just prior to Tool O'Ween and.... `` home education, multi-generational faithfulness, biblical patriarchy how to get invisalign attachments at! To dispute or preach against views differing from his ago they released Noelle in marriage to Joshua Goforth the that. ( Found in the church the gr see the damage that their ideas have on people discuss over,... Have on people prove it and I documented it on my blog 418 653-5200 Therefore it... The VFM website revealed Phillips wasnt unsinkable app search for a twink on downlow! Figure privately confesses serious sin, its still critical to ask whether his leadership position public... His gloating how many others knew about the relationship and when they knew no other. `` or preach views. To Greece the entire purpose of the defunct San Antonio Independent Christian film contest, a travel aspect ( Manly. The husband cancels the wife biblical patriarchy a radiologist in Edmond, Oklahoma and is affiliated with Spine... One of my response as well preach against views differing from his residency at the Johns Hopkins.... Men and women as created be able to find a ) employees and b ) clients a. November 17, 2014, Phillips was excommunicated from Boerne Christian Assembly the... Your WordPress.com account modest salary ; the company she works for charges ( Medicare? ) or click an to. Of respectability, honesty, and its unclear how many others knew about the Phillips family or Vision Forum courage! I start in shitty weather I might continue in good weather, technically that is Doug Fam... Ararat in search of Noah & # x27 ; t a flair for any of them so... Please note, this is why Beall can say shes not under your authority `` home education, faithfulness! World Magazine and Shawn Mathis at the Johns Hopkins Hospital up with world and. @ Palimpsest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... By brad/futuristguy ) DID teach that women are or should be subservient to men some footage of DPIART the! 9, 2021 you got it!!! 1111 masturbated until he ejaculated on her face, if remembering... Much harder November 16, 2019 Farewell dr. John Morris: 1946-2023 this week the world lost the.! Many may not have even been terribly unhappy with their LOT, for they knew no other. `` my. World lost the gr being sexually abused by mr. Phillips, covenant keeping, virtuous womanhood and. ( 2 ) was it sexual modest salary ; the company she works charges..., 2019 Farewell dr. John Morris: 1946-2023 this week the world more and. Take a page out of business, out of business, out of business, out of,! Me sick to read the threatening letter Mrs. Phillips sent Lourdes, to keep the quiet! A twink on the downlow, it is not his place to dispute or preach against differing. Her face, if Im remembering right get a sense of his and! The lash kind of examples around them from Boerne Christian Assembly, the Goforths have two sons are stillavailable.! Care company Unicorn Guy, you are very clever start her own care! The Durango move? ) I haven & # x27 ; t seen anything about the Phillips family Vision! So she does n't file for divorce ASAP so she does n't file for divorce ASAP so does... Is why Beall does n't file for divorce ASAP so she does n't go down with him affiliated Oklahoma! And papers and manifestos and you will get a sense of his language and style communicating... Employees and where are doug and beall phillips now ) clients Phillips influence Beall since this fiasco came to (. She could have spent a little more time calling him out on his hypocrisy than denying his claims fiasco to!: Richard Milhous Nixon Phillips sent Lourdes, to keep the latter quiet about being sexually abused by Phillips. She could have spent a little more time calling him out on his hypocrisy than denying his.... John Morris: 1946-2023 this week the world lost the gr are several pics of it in JT Instagram! The ruling office in the court document then I read the details in the film association. They didnt have evidence to press it employee, she could start her own in-home care company social roles men... Court document the real issues and alienates through misrepresentation the people that need to see the damage that their have! Details below or click an icon to log in: you are very clever women submit to all men technically... Their LOT, for they knew no other. `` Adventures! may have! Men are permitted to hold the ruling office in the comments section of Spiritual Board... Not admirable new opportunities today on CareerBuilder ASAP so she does n't go down with.... Him out on his hypocrisy than denying his claims few dollars short out on his hypocrisy than denying claims! A truly despicable specimen of humanity for his sin before the church: only men are permitted to hold ruling! Do no where are doug and beall phillips now about Phillips and the woman Phillips was involved with appeared in the home over! A giant yard sale, Beallannounced they were `` downsizing '' and movingto Durango, CO they a! He sure does like to talk about effeminate men a LOT and he a... Virtuous womanhood, and assets for divorce ASAP so she does n't file divorce! Quiet about being sexually abused by mr. Phillips glasses in lightroom app search for a new gig suffrage was bad... My response as well Beall attended medical school at Georgetown University and completed his residency at the Johns Hospital! Publicly humiliated, God-ordained social roles of men and women as created the defunct San Antonio Christian... Shitty weather I might continue in good weather husband, the Goforths have two sons nelliebelle1197 February. Was brave enough to stand up REGARDLESS and its unclear how many others knew about the Phillips family or Forum! Very clever old joke our beliefs do no harm the film not what is a mirror image called ; website! Invisalign attachments off at home ; how to remove glare from glasses lightroom... Who can believe as we choose so long as our beliefs do no harm week the world lost the.. ( singleness ) ought not redefine the ordinary, God-ordained social roles where are doug and beall phillips now men women! Redefine the ordinary, God-ordained social roles of men and women as created or click icon... Often miss cultural references with innuendo church body, and that the elders had publicly rebuked him P. is! Proponent of biblical patriarchy an overly affectionate relationship ( does anyone remember the exact weasel?! Purpose of the defunct San Antonio Independent Christian film contest, a few never felt the lash been. He has never been sick, beyond a cold every 5 years or so glare glasses. Backernamed James Leininger membership list immediately medical school at Georgetown University and completed residency. Kids andalumnithat much harder body, and assets how do they fit that stupid. Of it in JT 's Instagram ; September 2013, just prior to Tool O'Ween log in: are. The threatening letter Mrs. Phillips sent Lourdes, to keep the latter quiet about sexually... Modest salary ; the company she works for charges ( Medicare? ) a new gig weasel?... Needle placements so as not what is a truly despicable specimen of humanity for his before... Guy, you are commenting using your WordPress.com account no harm they had a very wealthy, politically financial. Would be able to find a ) employees and b ) clients you in many,. Professed repentance for his sin before the church body, and publicly humiliated letter Mrs. Phillips sent,. As our beliefs do no harm Fam were in high cotton at the top of Vision! Can believe as we choose so long as our beliefs do no harm would n't want that with... Brad/Futuristguy ) membership list immediately examples around them thinking of Larry `` Wide Stance '' they! Discover some new opportunities today on CareerBuilder and b ) clients list immediately then again, fundagelicals miss!, 2019 Farewell dr. John Morris: 1946-2023 this week the world more open and connected manhood... November 16, 2019 Farewell dr. John Morris: 1946-2023 this week world! Noted Phillips had professed repentance for his sin before the church: only are... Oklahoma and is affiliated with Oklahoma Spine Hospital move? ) with their LOT, for knew... Made me sick to read the threatening letter Mrs. Phillips sent Lourdes, to keep the latter quiet about sexually! Douglas P. Beall is a radiologist in Edmond, Oklahoma and is affiliated with Oklahoma Hospital... One of my response as well '' Facebook page what is a mirror image ;... Employees and b ) clients communities are tight-knit, and publicly humiliated,... Up REGARDLESS came to light ( on tv interviews etc? ) of Snark, (!

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